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	<title>Trinity Discussions &#187; Salvation</title>
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	<description>Discussion</description>
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		<title>From the Pit in to the Light</title>
		<link>http://trinityrbc.org/discussion/2009/03/05/from-the-pit-in-to-the-light/</link>
		<comments>http://trinityrbc.org/discussion/2009/03/05/from-the-pit-in-to-the-light/#comments</comments>
		<pubDate>Thu, 05 Mar 2009 22:25:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<dc:creator>Beth M</dc:creator>
				<category><![CDATA[Salvation]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Thankfullness]]></category>

		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://trinityrbc.org/discussion/?p=39</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[When Adam fell, he brought our race down, down, down, into the deep, dark pit of sin. We were without hope of ever regaining our former habitation of light. Actually, having been born in the pit and having lived our lives here, we know of nothing better or different. But even if made aware of [...]]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>When Adam fell, he brought our race down, down, down, into the deep, dark pit of sin. We were without hope of ever regaining our former habitation of light.<span> </span>Actually, having been born in the pit and having lived our lives here, we know of nothing better or different.<span> </span>But even if made aware of a lighted world above, we cannot make our way out of this vast dark dungeon.<span> </span>Unlike Theseus and his ball of yarn in the labyrinth of the Minotaur, we cannot follow any means to the way out – for there is none.<span> </span>Our world of dark disgrace and hopeless death should never be thought of as on equal plains with that of God and that a pit lies between us that we can cross over to Him.<span> </span>No, our world, our state of being, lies infinitely below His.<span> </span>And His dwelling in triple holiness is infinitely higher than the plains of light.<span> </span>Even if we could somehow make our way out of the pit, we could never attain to His heights of righteousness.</p>
<p class="MsoNormal">
<p class="MsoNormal">Living in the plains of light, if we did always what pleased Him, it would never raise us up to be any closer to Him on the heights of righteousness, for we would only be doing what the creature should be doing in respect to the Creator –<span> </span>as the child to the parent, or the subject to the king.<span> </span>If the child obeys the parent in every way, does this change the role of the child?<span> </span>Can he now be equal to the parent?<span> </span>If the subject remains truly loyal to the king, does this move him up in nobility?<span> </span>Can he sit with the king in the throne?<span> </span>Of course not, for the child and the subject are simply fulfilling who they are.<span> </span>They cannot attain to the same position as those over them.<span> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">
<p class="MsoNormal">So we, subjects of the great eternal King, are only doing what we ought when we obey in every way (Luke 17:7-10).<span> </span>How, then, can we be seated <em>with</em> Christ in the heavenly places as we are told in Ephesians 2:6.</p>
<p class="MsoNormal">
<p class="MsoNormal">Just as it pleased God to create this fascinating, wondrous universe, displaying all His glorious attributes of creativity:<span> </span>power, knowledge, presence, and more – so it pleases Him to create anew in His people.<span> </span>In the dead soul, the seed of the Word is implanted.<span> </span>The Holy Spirit breathes upon the dead man and life is born!</p>
<p class="MsoNormal">
<p class="MsoNormal">We have here a picture of the three persons working together, in full agreement.<span> </span>The Father points to the dead soul and the Word of Christ is gifted to that soul.<span> </span>But understanding – life-giving understanding – is not achieved until the Spirit blows across that soul.<span> </span>The sleeper awakes and walks in the light of that implanted Word, legs of faith strengthened by the all-powerful, life-giving, life-sustaining God.</p>
<p class="MsoNormal">
<p class="MsoNormal">We who have been pulled up from the pit not only walk in the plains of light.<span> </span>We also have a place, a seat, on the heights of righteousness (Eph. 2:6).<span> </span>What!<span> </span>Not only does He remove us from the pit and washes the filth away and causes us to walk in the light of His law.<span> </span>He doesn’t just take away from us – He adds to us!<span> </span>We are granted righteousness and raised up and called His “Holy Ones” (Eph. 2:19).</p>
<p class="MsoNormal">
<p class="MsoNormal">Why would He do this?<span> </span>He could leave us in our dark, filthy pit forever and be just in doing so.<span> </span>He owes us nothing – consider He has already created us and supplied us with all we need to live, sustaining the entire universe to make life possible.</p>
<p class="MsoNormal">
<p class="MsoNormal">While we were hating Him, He loved us and brought about His plan in real time and real space to rescue us from this dungeon.</p>
<p class="MsoNormal">
<p class="MsoNormal">You say you don’t hate Him?<span> </span>By what definition?<span> </span>Or, should I say, whose?<span> </span>The Bible defines love and hate differently than our culture does.<span> </span>Our culture says that love is a feeling that cannot be helped; it controls us and makes us do things we might not ever have done before it took control.<span> </span>We use hate in response to how something happened to us that we could not stop and therefore, we hate it or him.<span> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">
<p class="MsoNormal">It is different in the Bible.<span> </span>Hate in the Bible is failing to do for others, to live as if you are more important, to be willingly ignorant or to be oblivious of the needs of others.<span> </span>And hatred toward God is to fail to obey Him in the role He created you for:<span> </span>that of creature to Creator, that of child to Father, that of subject to King.<span> </span>Hatred toward God is to live as if He isn’t there, didn’t create you, has no interest in you.<span> </span>In other words, hate is what defines a sinner, a citizen of the pit – and you cannot escape this citizenship.<span> </span>As a descendant of Adam, you were born in this pit; there is no escape outside of God.</p>
<p class="MsoNormal">
<p class="MsoNormal">But what is love by the Bible’s standards?<span> </span>Love is an action that involves giving for the benefit of the other, even at cost to self.<span> </span>The Father demonstrated His love for the Son by giving Him a people who would worship and adore Him forever.<span> </span>He had to give the Son as a sacrifice in order to do that. The Son demonstrates His love for the Father by revealing who the Father is to the human race by doing what none of us would have ever thought to do – He became one of us so that we could see the Father.<span> </span>He had to give His life over into the hands of wicked men to do with Him as they pleased.<span> </span>The Spirit demonstrates His love to the Father and the Son as He illumines the Word of God in the hearts of dead souls, blowing as the wind over whomever the Father chooses.<span> </span>All of this is done out of a great love for me!<span> </span>For the church, the people of God.<span> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">
<p class="MsoNormal">This great love with which He loves us – His people – is a revelation of His mercy and grace and goodness and faithfulness.<span> </span>It is a <em>mercy</em> to pick one out and lift him out of the pit of darkness, when the one does not deserve it.<span> </span>It is <em>grace</em> to shine on one with the light of mercy and love, to give favor where death should reign.<span> </span>It is <em>goodness</em> because God has worked it all out in justice and righteousness and holiness; He does not do this arbitrarily; He does not break His own law.<span> </span>Christ suffered the punishment due to the sins of His people – an eternity of wrath for each one of His people as He hung on that cross.<span> </span>Justice was done and righteousness was displayed and a holy God was vindicated.<span> </span>It is <em>faithfulness</em> because God kept His promise made within the Trinity to save a people and to exalt the Son for His glory.<span> </span>It showcases His <em>power</em>:<span> </span>not one thing went undone, not one plan went awry, not one molecule slipped past Him in working it all out.<span> </span>It shows His <em>wisdom</em> and infinite understanding and knowledge:<span> </span>the minutest details were worked out and every heart of every man was understood and fit into the plan according to the sovereign plan of God.<span> </span>It shows His <em>presence</em>:<span> </span>God is not an impersonal God.<span> </span>He is intimately involved in the history of man, both as a body and as individuals, past, present and future.</p>
<p class="MsoNormal">
<p class="MsoNormal">God demonstrated His love toward us in that while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us.<span> </span>God, being rich in mercy, because of His great love with which He loved us, even when we were dead in our transgressions, made us alive together with Christ (by grace you have been saved), and raised us up with Him, and seated us with Him in the heavenly places in Christ Jesus, so that in the ages to come He might show the surpassing riches of His grace in kindness toward us in Christ Jesus.</p>
<p class="MsoNormal">
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: Diner;">Beth McMichen</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: Diner;">February 2009</span></p>
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		<title>About the Five Points of Calvinism</title>
		<link>http://trinityrbc.org/discussion/2009/01/24/about-the-five-points-of-calvinism/</link>
		<comments>http://trinityrbc.org/discussion/2009/01/24/about-the-five-points-of-calvinism/#comments</comments>
		<pubDate>Sat, 24 Jan 2009 14:15:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<dc:creator>Robin Eckhardt</dc:creator>
				<category><![CDATA[Calvinism]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Church]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Salvation]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Worship]]></category>

		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://trinityrbc.org/discussion/?p=32</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Pastor Steve Martin gives a good, short explanation of where the &#8216;Five Points&#8217; came from and what they mean for us today.
]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[
<p>Pastor Steve Martin gives a good, short explanation of where the &#8216;Five Points&#8217; came from and what they mean for us today.</p>
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		<slash:comments>0</slash:comments>
<enclosure url="http://trinityrbc.org/audio/fivePoints.mp3" length="16572048" type="audio/mpeg" />
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		<title>Second Psalm &#8211; Praises for the King of Kings</title>
		<link>http://trinityrbc.org/discussion/2008/10/05/second-psalm-praises-for-the-king-of-kings/</link>
		<comments>http://trinityrbc.org/discussion/2008/10/05/second-psalm-praises-for-the-king-of-kings/#comments</comments>
		<pubDate>Sun, 05 Oct 2008 21:19:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<dc:creator>Beth M</dc:creator>
				<category><![CDATA[Books]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Salvation]]></category>

		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://trinityrbc.org/discussion/?p=22</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[
Now therefore, O kings, show discernment;
Take warning, O judges of the earth.
Worship the LORD with reverence
And rejoice with trembling.
Do homage to the Son, that He not become angry, and you perish in the way,
For His wrath may soon be kindled
 How blessed are all who take refuge in Him!

 Psalm 2:10-12
We have been studying the [...]]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote>
<p class="MsoNormal">Now therefore, O kings, show discernment;<br />
Take warning, O judges of the earth.<br />
Worship the LORD with reverence<br />
And rejoice with trembling.<br />
Do homage to the Son, that He not become angry, and you perish in the way,<br />
For His wrath may soon be kindled<br />
<strong><em> How blessed are all who take refuge in Him!</em></strong></p>
</blockquote>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span> </span>Psalm 2:10-12</p>
<p class="MsoNormal">We have been studying the 2<sup>nd</sup> Psalm in our home group the past few weeks, using Walt Chantry’s book, “Praises for the King of Kings,” as a guide.<span> </span>When taken with the whole counsel of God, the Psalm seems to expand and expound the Gospel to the nations, who are described as mankind at war against the Lord and His Anointed, Christ.<span> </span>All are or have been members of this tumultuous and rioting army; the Lord makes it quite clear in Romans and many other passages that none of us are righteous and none of us seeks for God.<span> </span>We are His enemy.<span> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">As man rises up and shakes his fist at the God of all creation, the Lord laughs derisively in His throne room.<span> </span>It would be like the 3 year old child pummeling a grown man with the intent of getting his way at any cost.<span> </span>The grown man would laugh at the puny fists of the impotent child; a bear hug contains his struggles!<span> </span>The Lord, infinitely greater and more powerful than any man, has no worries about the threat of those who hate Him.<span> </span>He is, after all, creator of this entire universe and of all men.</p>
<p class="MsoNormal">God has crowned the King of all kings, Christ the Lord, and has installed Him upon His holy hill.<span> </span>Christ has been given the inheritance of all things, even the nations, and He will do with them as His justice demands.<span> </span>He will wield an iron scepter and crush the enemies of His kingdom.<span> </span>And of course, mankind is deserving of His righteous justice.<span> </span>Man has committed treason against the rightful King and has become His sworn enemy, refusing to acknowledge the authority of his Creator.<span> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">A true king would not allow such treason in his kingdom.<span> </span>Christ is a righteous and just king and He stands ready to judge.<span> </span>However, and thankfully for us, He is also merciful and patient, longsuffering.<span> </span>This stands out most in our study – the longsuffering patience and mercy of our righteous God!<span> </span>He waits; He holds His wrath to give every one the opportunity to repent, to turn to Him and to forsake the enemy.<span> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">The entire Psalm is written in language reminiscent of days gone by, when kings ruled kingdoms and certain protocol must be adhered to in the courts of the king.<span> </span>It is difficult for us Americans to truly understand this and we bristle at the thought of bowing the knee to any man.<span> </span>But, this is no mere man.<span> </span>This is the God-man, the Lord and King of all creation, Christ Jesus.<span> </span>He has done what no other man could or would do and certainly no king would do.<span> </span>He has paid the price of treason for those who trust in Him.<span> </span>Our sins against a holy God are blotted out by the One enthroned in heaven. Thank goodness – no, thank God! – this Psalm doesn’t end at verse 9!</p>
<p class="MsoNormal">On page 45, Mr. Chantry writes about those who do come to Christ in repentance.<span> </span>This paragraph made me have to do some soul-searching.<span> </span>It made me wonder about my own salvation . . . here is what he says:</p>
<blockquote>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="0in 0.5in 0.0001pt;"><span style="&quot;Book Antiqua&quot;;">“Most of us who are Christians can recall our earliest approaches to God’s Son in prayer.<span> </span>Because God’s law had done its work in our consciences we went to the Lord loaded with a great weight of guilt and shame.<span> </span>We trembled to enter the courts of His holiness, justice and power, knowing that we were deserving of His wrath. But we had heard that enemies of heaven could have peace with God through Him and that there was no other way to pardon and life.”</span></p>
</blockquote>
<p class="MsoNormal">I did not experience this at the beginning – not in the way he describes it!<span> </span>I thought I <em>was</em> saved and needed to make things right.<span> </span>I started going to church and found myself agreeing with the preaching.<span> </span>I went to an SBC church for several months then to a Christian church for a while, about 2 years or so, never realizing that I needed to repent. <span> </span>Yet God was changing me.<span> </span>Then, we started going to a church where the focus was different than anything I had ever experienced.<span> </span>I began to learn about God.<span> </span>And He kept getting bigger and bigger.</p>
<p class="MsoNormal">It has been difficult to shake my Arminian roots.<span> </span>I believe, yes, I thoroughly believe the great doctrines.<span> </span>They make sense to me; they are just plain right!<span> </span>But the old patterns of thought and of response are deeply grooved into my mind and I have to make a conscious effort to deviate from them at times.<span> </span>Couple this with the fact that, naturally, man (myself included) always tries to work his way toward God, has to approach Him on his own terms, and – for me at least – it takes years of prayer, study, experience, under God’s patient and loving care to change at all.</p>
<p class="MsoNormal">I do believe He has saved me.<span> </span>But when I read stuff like Mr. Chantry has written, it shakes me up.<span> </span>And so then I have to do some thinking and wondering, “Am I saved?”<span> </span>But the evidence, I have to remind myself, does not lie within me.<span> </span>It is in Christ.<span> </span>Is there faith in that great work of His; am I drawn to Him?<span> </span>More than anything else?<span> </span>What captivates me most?<span> </span>This present world, my family, the horses, my homeschool?<span> </span>Or Him?<span> </span>If I lost it all – all these things that are meaningful and significant to me – would I still find hope and a future in Him?</p>
<p class="MsoNormal">Or, to look at it from another perspective, could I walk away from this new life?<span> </span>Could I live as if there were no eternity?<span> </span>Oh, no when I think that, there is this writhing within me, an agony of thought and soul, “NO!<span> </span>That is the lie!<span> </span>There is an eternity and it is ruled by God.”</p>
<p class="MsoNormal">Stripped of all the trappings and distractions of my life, there is this underlying faith that is stronger than even my will, my desires.<span> </span>I may be shaken, but this faith remains unbroken.<span> </span>Not because of me.<span> </span>Because of Him!<span> </span>For some reason that I can’t understand, He has given me His love, this faith, this great gift of mercy and grace.<span> </span>Oh, I don’t deserve it and I certainly don’t live as if I’m grateful for it.<span> </span>But look, look at that One seated on the throne in the courts of heaven.<span> </span>He paid for my treason, and when I deserved a common traitor’s death, He gave me His life and His love instead.</p>
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		<title>I Never Wanted to Follow Jesus</title>
		<link>http://trinityrbc.org/discussion/2008/06/17/i-never-wanted-to-follow-jesus/</link>
		<comments>http://trinityrbc.org/discussion/2008/06/17/i-never-wanted-to-follow-jesus/#comments</comments>
		<pubDate>Tue, 17 Jun 2008 10:02:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<dc:creator>Robin Eckhardt</dc:creator>
				<category><![CDATA[Salvation]]></category>

		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://trinityrbc.org/discussion/?p=17</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I never wanted to follow Jesus, He rescued me!
This reflects  Jonathan Edwards and other Puritan&#8217;s view that man&#8217;s will is bound by sin &#8211;  humanity is hostile to God &#38; left to ourselves would never seek after God.  Grace means God first gives us a new heart that desires to follow Him, [...]]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><strong>I never wanted to follow Jesus, He rescued me!</strong><br />
This reflects  Jonathan Edwards and other Puritan&#8217;s view that man&#8217;s will is bound by sin &#8211;  humanity is hostile to God &amp; left to ourselves would never seek after God.  Grace means God first gives us a new heart that desires to follow Him,  subsequently we freely choose to follow. Arminian thought says, &#8220;I make a  decision to follow Christ, then He saves me.&#8221; But this give too much credit to  man, and followed to its logical conclusion, means that somehow something that a  man does (some good work or decision) makes them acceptable to God. The biblical  view of grace is unmerited favor: nothing in man, not his decision nor his good  works makes him acceptable, but only the sovereign mercy and favor of God.</p>

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